{"id":30613,"date":"2019-11-01T03:00:41","date_gmt":"2019-11-01T03:00:41","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.pokerscout.com\/?p=30613"},"modified":"2019-11-08T15:30:51","modified_gmt":"2019-11-08T15:30:51","slug":"re-entry-tournaments-stoke-debate-among-players","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.pokerscout.com\/re-entry-tournaments-stoke-debate-among-players\/","title":{"rendered":"Re-entry Tournaments Stoke Debate Among Players"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">With the <strong>World Series of Poker Europe<\/strong> wrapping up, a debate regarding <strong>re-entry tournaments<\/strong> has consumed social media in recent days. The debate has focused on whether allowing unlimited re-entries is good for poker.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Numerous players have weighed in on the issue. <strong>Daniel Negreanu<\/strong> has long been a critic of re-entry events, preferring the game\u2019s old days when freezeouts were the norm.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The argument spurred comments and opinions throughout the past week. Some even offered ideas on possible changes to re-entry poker tournament formats.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The issue certainly seems to be top of mind for many with many weighing in with their own analysis.<\/span><\/p>\n<h2><span id=\"re-entry_poker_creates_some_differing_opinions_on_fairness\">Re-entry poker creates some differing opinions on fairness<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The re-entry format has been the norm for most tournament events for several years now. Tours like the <strong>World Poker Tour<\/strong> make use of the format for a few reasons.<\/span><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><b>Prize pools<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u2013 Many feel re-entries help build prize pools, and offer larger payouts, which players have come to expect.<\/span><\/li>\n<li><b>Happier players<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u2013\u00a0The theory is that players who travel the circuit regularly get more bang for the buck with re-entries. After spending money on travel, a chance to re-enter after an early elimination offers a chance to get back in action.<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Critics argue that re-entry formats benefit well-financed pros. Players with more money can fire away until they build large stacks with a better shot to run deep.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Last December, <strong>Dylan Linde<\/strong> won the <strong>WPT Five Diamond World Poker Classic<\/strong> for $1.6 million after firing five bullets. Those re-entries ran $10,400 each.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In an event that paid 126 players, Linde had to finish at least 24th just to make a small profit. Some players point to this type of bullet firing to show what\u2019s wrong with the system.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Others argue re-entries are good for all involved regardless of poker status. The system is the same for everyone and players can decide what\u2019s best for them.<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u201cA good reg can get coolered too and have another chance,\u201d poker pro <strong>Daniel Strelitz<\/strong> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/dDeoxyribo\/status\/1189753097616338945?s=20\">noted on Twitter<\/a>.\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Others echo similar thoughts.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" data-width=\"525\" data-dnt=\"true\">\n<p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">There&#39;s a discussion to be had about whether tourneys allow  too many rebuys, but pros playing crazy to try to build up a stack is good for recs\/one bulleters and doesn&#39;t really happen at the highest stakes.<\/p>\n<p>&mdash; Sam Greenwood (@SamGreenwoodRIO) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/SamGreenwoodRIO\/status\/1189585132581281792?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">October 30, 2019<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<h2><span id=\"criticism_of_the_system_and_a_few_alternatives\">Criticism of the system and a few alternatives<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Beyond simply favoring <strong>freezeouts<\/strong> and poker events with fewer re-entries, Negreanu thinks his return on investment is lower in these events.<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u201cI believe this, but cannot prove it as fact: most pros who play a tournament with no re-entry option will have a higher ROI on that bullet than their first bullet if they are planning to reenter,\u201d he <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/RealKidPoker\/status\/1189792462795157504?s=20\">Tweeted this week<\/a>.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><strong>Kid Poker<\/strong> suggested paying out the number of players responsible for the prize pool rather than entries. A <strong>shorter number of payouts<\/strong> might help curb late registrations, he argues.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Others argued this top-heavy payout system would favor pros. Either way, Negreanu plans on adjusting his own tournament registration procedures in the future.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" data-width=\"525\" data-dnt=\"true\">\n<p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\">After this WSOPE I\u2019m strongly considering playing only one bullet in any re-entry tournament. <\/p>\n<p>By going in with a mindset that you only get one shot, I think it can have a positive affect on your play.<\/p>\n<p>Too often me, and others make -EV decisions in re-entry<\/p>\n<p>&mdash; Daniel Negreanu (@RealKidPoker) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/RealKidPoker\/status\/1188450554772676609?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">October 27, 2019<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">One alternative idea is allowing <strong>fewer re-entries<\/strong>, maybe even a single extra bullet. Others favored smaller chip stacks for those who enter late or banning late registration altogether.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Some players don\u2019t necessarily enjoy re-entry events. But they feel these can be good for recreational players when considering some pros\u2019 expected value (EV).\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u201cThe one good thing about it when top pros are playing re-entries at lower than their average buy-in, they tend to\u00a0 play the re-entry period in a negative-EV fashion that is good for their opponents,\u201d poker pro <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/AriEngelPoker\/status\/1189893214968459266?s=20\"><strong>Ari Engel<\/strong> notes<\/a>.<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u201cPlease don\u2019t misunderstand \u2013 re-entries are awful, but this is one of the few good things about them for the perspective of the average player in the field, losing less money long run.\u201d<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<h2><span id=\"some_tough_choices_when_it_comes_to_prize_pools\">Some tough choices when it comes to prize pools<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Re-entries may be a challenge for some, but reduced fields could have a major effect on <strong>poker prize pools<\/strong>. Striking a balance that will still produce large payouts is a difficult needle to thread.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Some believe re-entries hurt <strong>recreational players<\/strong>\u2019 chances in big events. But if prize pools diminish, would recreational players be as attracted to major poker tournaments?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Negreanu remains a believer in non-re-entry events, and believes fewer re-entries not only help recreational players but also pros. His argument is that pros tend to play better when they know there are fewer chances to get back in.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The <strong>Commerce Casino<\/strong> was set to kick off the <strong>LA Poker Open<\/strong> on Nov. 1. The property was taking a stab at finding a compromise between both side of the equation.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Players wouldn\u2019t be allowed to re-enter in a starting flight in which they\u2019ve been eliminated. These players could then enter another starting flight. There would also be no re-entry in one-day events.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The Commerce is attempting to find some middle ground and reach players who may favor fewer buy-ins. It will be interesting to see what players think, but the debate on the issue should continue.<\/span><\/p>\n<h2><span id=\"a_look_at_the_wsop_in_las_vegas\">A look at the WSOP in Las Vegas<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The World Series of Poker has mostly been a holdout in keeping re-entries at a minimum in most events. It does offer some re-entry tournaments, including the gargantuan field record setters.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">However, much of the series remain in the freezeout format or offer\u00a0 limited re-entries. Here are some statistics from this summer\u2019s <strong>89-event series<\/strong>:<\/span><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><b><\/b><b>Freezeouts<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u2013 42 events including the <strong>Monster Stack<\/strong>, <strong>Mini-Main Event<\/strong>, and <strong>Main Event<\/strong>. These represented <strong>46.6%<\/strong> of all bracelet events.<\/span><\/li>\n<li><b>Single re-entry<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> \u2013\u00a032 events, representing <strong>35%<\/strong> of bracelet events.<\/span><\/li>\n<li><b>Freezeouts and single<\/b> <b>re-entry <\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u2013\u00a0Combined, these made up about <strong>80%<\/strong> of bracelet events.<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><strong>Seth Palansky<\/strong>, Caesars\/WSOP vice president of corporate communications, notes that the <strong>WSOP staff<\/strong> tends to be more conservative when it comes to re-entries. However, sometimes an additional entry can be favorable for certain events.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u201cWhen we analyzed our numbers and recognized, for example, that <strong>44.7<\/strong> percent of players in the <strong>seniors event<\/strong> made that the only WSOP event they played all summer, we decided adding a single re-entry to that event was favorable to all,\u201d he says.<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u201cIf that is the one event you play and you run Kings into Aces early, you are going to want another chance to enter if you wish.\u201d<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The WSOP takes a nuanced approach, Palansky says, and doesn\u2019t think about re-entries in isolation.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Other major considerations when scheduling events include starting: chip stack, level lengths, late registration periods, scheduled length of tournament, dealer costs, fees to pay dealers and staff, allocated dealers and staff, event location, number of events being run at the venue, venue objectives, length of series, and more.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Palansky believes the issue deserves more study in the industry beyond social media.<\/span><\/p>\n<h2><span id=\"striking_a_balance_with_more_options\">Striking a balance with more options<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The WSOP has added more <strong>starting chips<\/strong> in recent years, generally with positive responses and record turnouts. Re-entries provide value for players by swelling prize pools and make it easier for operators to meet guarantees.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u201cThere have been unintended consequences,\u201d Palansky says. \u201cSome have found the combination of re-entries and late registration as a way to gain an edge. Poker is all about exploiting edges or perceived value, but the other side of the coin is to understand whether there is a level playing field for all who enter an event.<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">&#8220;On one hand, someone re-entering seven times in an event means they have given all their chips to others seven times already. Those players receiving those chips are thrilled to get them.\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">But when that eighth entry yields a deep run, some argue that the player \u2018bought\u2019 the result and had an unfair advantage.\u201d<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Some venues have become \u201caddicted to re-entry,\u201d Palansky says, as it provides better cost certainty and less risk. He argues re-entry has replaced some concurrent tournaments that could be scheduled. Palansky believes the WSOP has moved in the right direction.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u201cWe feel at the WSOP in Las Vegas, we have struck the right balance,\u201d Palansky says. \u201cFirst off, we have a long tournament series with ample events and opportunities for everyone to either find or avoid individual events based on their preference.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u201cWe at the WSOP feel the pendulum has swung too far with re-entries.\u00a0 It\u2019s important that everyone who enters an event has a chance to win that event. Certainly skill alters that and that\u2019s okay \u2013\u00a0as in all of sports and competitions. But buying your way into the money is a concern. Re-entry has its place, it is just a matter of finding the right balance.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>With the World Series of Poker Europe wrapping up, a debate regarding re-entry tournaments has [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":12,"featured_media":30617,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_lmt_disableupdate":"","_lmt_disable":"","vebbtech_seo_disable_yoast":false,"vebbtech_seo_hide_author":false,"vebbtech_seo_hide_date":false,"vebbtech_seo_hide_factchecker":false,"vebbtech_seo_fact_check_enabled":false,"vebbtech_seo_post_reviewer":0,"vebbtech_seo_post_review_date":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[6],"tags":[35,14],"class_list":{"0":"post-30613","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"category-news-category","8":"tag-world-poker-tour","9":"tag-wsop"},"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v24.0 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Re-entry Tournament Issue Brings Debate Among Players<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"The fairness of re-entry tournaments has been a subject of debate lately on social media. 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He's a senior editor with Casino Player and Strictly Slots magazines, and a feature writer for the World Poker Tour. He covers a wide range of topics including poker, gambling, sports betting, travel, true crime, sports, and more.\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.pokerscout.com\/author\/seanchaffin\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Re-entry Tournament Issue Brings Debate Among Players","description":"The fairness of re-entry tournaments has been a subject of debate lately on social media. 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